Sister Mary Forman, OSB, is a member of the Monastery of Saint Gertrude in Cottonwood, Idaho. She is the editor of One Heart, One Soul, Many Communities and the author of Praying with the Desert Mothers, as well as numerous articles on Benedictine spirituality. Currently, Sister Mary teaches undergraduate theology at the College of Saint Benedict and Saint John’s University, and monastic studies and spirituality at Saint John’s School of Theology•Seminary in Collegeville, Minnesota.
In our conversation, Sister Mary and I discuss how the monastic tradition undergoes fluctuating periods of diversity and standardization, and some of the factors that make the present time a unique moment of growing diversity, both within and beyond monastery walls. In particular, we talk about the significance of conversations and relationships forming across denominational lines, including mutually enriching encounters between traditional monasteries and emerging forms of lay community.
Into/Outro music “He Prabhu” by Fr. Cyprian Consiglio, OSB Cam., and John Pennington, from Compassionate and Wise.
Thanks, Julian. I enjoyed Sister Mary’s too. Some of the questions that arose for me from her interview have to do with the distinction between the spirit within the people wanting to form new intentionalities and the exterior forms they feel bound to, in a way. The relationship between those two things seems worth exploring – again, for me, it raises questions about why churches aren’t providing formation and about the criteria for selecting which asceticisms to adher to as new monastics. I loved this look at the Monastic Institute’s desire to include so many possibilities of monastic-life expressions and for Sister Mary’s basic definition of the goal: “living gospel-centered lives in community” and her opennes to what that might look like in the future. I feel sympathy with her being sensitive to the pain and discomfort future changes may bring. Thanks again!
The question of how churches can begin to make room and form people for new kinds of lay intentionality or lay community– and not just the question but the urgent necessity for this kind of help–was one of Ivan Kauffman’s primary concerns. I thought S. Mary dealt sensitively with the interplay you mention between the underlying spirit or impulse of a community and the outer forms, and the need to listen closely to the Spirit and seek assistance where necessary. For her, abiding relationships arising from exchanges across a diverse spectrum seem to be central to this process.
One contrast that I am taken by between my conversation with S. Mary and Ivan Kauffman is the strong sense of utter precariousness that Ivan seems to perceive among lay communities, versus the relatively flexible, institutionalized, centuries-old organic stability S. Mary describes from the monastic side. That stability provides a solid ground for creative change–the interplay of stabilitas and conversatio, stability and ongoing transformation. This heightens my own sense of the need for enduring relationships that give rise to organized, institutional supports for communal forms of lay intentionality. I am also encouraged by the fact that these relationships are indeed forming.
I was encouraged, too, in listening to Sister Mary’s very openness from a more traditional perspective within organized monasticism to what could be coming. That was very heartwarming to me and I think you’re right in pointing to the stability of traditional forms offering a solid place from which creativity can spring. I think my automatic assumption is that monastics in a more traditional form of life might feel threatened by alterations to a very cherished form of life made by people outside the tradition and Sister Mary’s response seemed very much to counteract that assumption and I was grateful to hear that. I think as long as we don’t hold onto our own ideas of what should be maybe things will work out better than otherwise: I’m thinking of a conversation I had with you yesterday in which on reflection, I realize I hold fairly idealized (less realistic, as you pointed out) thoughts about what needs to be done in the church and I appreciate your perspective and enthusiasm about these new intentionalities.